Posted by mareserinitatis in career, engineering, feminism, science, societal commentary.
Tags: Amp Hour, feminism, nerd girls, sexism, shopping
I promise not to turn this into a weekly installment of “reactions to what Chris and Dave said”…unless, of course, they keep saying things I feel require a response.
In the fifth Amp Hour, they discussed the Nerd Girls upcoming reality show. I’ve discussed them a couple times before, and at best, my feelings are ambivalent. Rather than responding to the concept of Nerd Girls, I think it’s better to respond to the things the Chris and Dave said because there were some items that stuck out as misconceptions.
First, I agree entirely that the best way to encourage young women to get into engineering is by introducing them to engineering as a fun activity. (I became interested in programming when I was 9 and have felt that was what piqued my interest in science and engineering. Funny how I ended up doing simulation work.) On the other hand, that’s only half the problem. There really is a strong social disapproval of women who want to go into engineering. I think, for example, of my niece. Her aunt and and uncle are both engineers. She did very well in calculus. When she said she hadn’t determined a major when she entered college, I suggested engineering. The look I got from everyone in her family was pretty much, “Are you crazy?!”
Dave mentioned that the point of the show was that “you can be a traditionally girly-type girl and still be an engineer” but then wondered if that was really needed.
My answer is: definitely. Physics could use it, too. Shows like this are probably not going to appeal to men, and I suspect some of that is a rejection of wanting to deal with the things that strike them as too feminine. Both Chris and Dave said that those types of things shouldn’t be important or at least not as prominent to girls in engineering…but they can be, and I don’t think a lot of men can deal with that. And for younger girls, they have few role models of women who are able to accomplish a healthy balance.
“Fitting in” as a woman in engineering can be harder than you imagine: it really does require taking on a very masculine persona. For a lot of women who go into engineering (and stay), I suspect that some of that isn’t a huge issue. On the other hand, I have noticed that there are marked differences in personality and work between myself and my male coworkers (i.e. everyone else in my group). It is easy to stick out. If you happen to be a woman who likes to dress up daily and wear high heels, you can imagine that the responses of the people around you in that environment will be either derision or the assumption that this means you’re looking for a husband. Chris said, “I don’t want to see them go shopping,” but some women might. In particular, I’m curious how these women can manage being “feminine” engineers without the backlash that such behavior usually brings.
My ambivalence about the whole thing is exactly what Dave said, “And you know they’re going to choose the hot-looking ones.” Indeed, they’re looking for very young women, which would preclude a lot of quite accomplished and talented engineers. Although it’s meant to dispel the myth that “women engineers are ugly,” there’s the counter to that where many men think women are only kept around because they’re eye-candy and not because they’re good engineers.
Ideally, no one should give a damn how a woman looks: they’ll pay more attention to their accomplishments. I think most people strive for this ideal. There are a lot who don’t, however. Fluxor has a great example on his blog, but then Dave even made the comment along the same vein that Kari from Mythbusters was “a bit better to look at” than the other Mythbusters cast. I know it seems like an innocent comment, but it’s the type of thing that makes me cringe all the time. It’s very hard to get away from that, and I don’t think this program is going to do much to help it, at least from the male perspective.
My way to approach this is simply to assume that there is an audience of young women for whom this video will be somewhat inspirational. There are girls who are going to want to see how these women spend their personal time as much as their professional time. I’m just going to hold my breath and hope that they focus more on their intellect than their looks, as unlikely as it seems. I hope the guys will withhold judgement because the intended audience may find the “girly” aspect of the show just as compelling as the engineering side.
I also blog at Engineer Blogs, home away from home to some of the best engineering blogs.
Nerd Girls redux August 25, 2010
Posted by mareserinitatis in career, engineering, feminism, science, societal commentary.Tags: Amp Hour, feminism, nerd girls, sexism, shopping
14 comments
I promise not to turn this into a weekly installment of “reactions to what Chris and Dave said”…unless, of course, they keep saying things I feel require a response.
In the fifth Amp Hour, they discussed the Nerd Girls upcoming reality show. I’ve discussed them a couple times before, and at best, my feelings are ambivalent. Rather than responding to the concept of Nerd Girls, I think it’s better to respond to the things the Chris and Dave said because there were some items that stuck out as misconceptions.
First, I agree entirely that the best way to encourage young women to get into engineering is by introducing them to engineering as a fun activity. (I became interested in programming when I was 9 and have felt that was what piqued my interest in science and engineering. Funny how I ended up doing simulation work.) On the other hand, that’s only half the problem. There really is a strong social disapproval of women who want to go into engineering. I think, for example, of my niece. Her aunt and and uncle are both engineers. She did very well in calculus. When she said she hadn’t determined a major when she entered college, I suggested engineering. The look I got from everyone in her family was pretty much, “Are you crazy?!”
Dave mentioned that the point of the show was that “you can be a traditionally girly-type girl and still be an engineer” but then wondered if that was really needed.
My answer is: definitely. Physics could use it, too. Shows like this are probably not going to appeal to men, and I suspect some of that is a rejection of wanting to deal with the things that strike them as too feminine. Both Chris and Dave said that those types of things shouldn’t be important or at least not as prominent to girls in engineering…but they can be, and I don’t think a lot of men can deal with that. And for younger girls, they have few role models of women who are able to accomplish a healthy balance.
“Fitting in” as a woman in engineering can be harder than you imagine: it really does require taking on a very masculine persona. For a lot of women who go into engineering (and stay), I suspect that some of that isn’t a huge issue. On the other hand, I have noticed that there are marked differences in personality and work between myself and my male coworkers (i.e. everyone else in my group). It is easy to stick out. If you happen to be a woman who likes to dress up daily and wear high heels, you can imagine that the responses of the people around you in that environment will be either derision or the assumption that this means you’re looking for a husband. Chris said, “I don’t want to see them go shopping,” but some women might. In particular, I’m curious how these women can manage being “feminine” engineers without the backlash that such behavior usually brings.
My ambivalence about the whole thing is exactly what Dave said, “And you know they’re going to choose the hot-looking ones.” Indeed, they’re looking for very young women, which would preclude a lot of quite accomplished and talented engineers. Although it’s meant to dispel the myth that “women engineers are ugly,” there’s the counter to that where many men think women are only kept around because they’re eye-candy and not because they’re good engineers.
Ideally, no one should give a damn how a woman looks: they’ll pay more attention to their accomplishments. I think most people strive for this ideal. There are a lot who don’t, however. Fluxor has a great example on his blog, but then Dave even made the comment along the same vein that Kari from Mythbusters was “a bit better to look at” than the other Mythbusters cast. I know it seems like an innocent comment, but it’s the type of thing that makes me cringe all the time. It’s very hard to get away from that, and I don’t think this program is going to do much to help it, at least from the male perspective.
My way to approach this is simply to assume that there is an audience of young women for whom this video will be somewhat inspirational. There are girls who are going to want to see how these women spend their personal time as much as their professional time. I’m just going to hold my breath and hope that they focus more on their intellect than their looks, as unlikely as it seems. I hope the guys will withhold judgement because the intended audience may find the “girly” aspect of the show just as compelling as the engineering side.